Adam Grant looked uncomfortable.
He was about 20 minutes into his chat with award-winning researcher Brené Brown when she asked him to get up from his chair and stand on one leg. She was using him to make a point about “the tush push,” a controversial football play that’s also a chapter title in her new book on leadership, Strong Ground.
“I’m afraid of what’s going to happen,” Grant, a Wharton management professor, said as Brown, his longtime friend and intellectual sparring partner, teased him about his “guns” from working out. With one quick shove, Brown easily knocked him off balance despite his strength. The same instability happens to leaders when they do not plant both feet firmly in the values that matter to them, she said.
“Imagine being on a team with 10 people who are grounded in their values, grounded in a clear mission, grounded in operational excellence, grounded in a clarity of strategy, with a slight temporal awareness against the competitors, pushing at the same time,” Brown said, “That’s freaking exciting.”
Brown is research professor at the University of Houston, a practice professor at University of Texas at Austin’s McCombs School of Management, a podcaster, and the author of six New York Times bestsellers. She came to Wharton in November to join Grant for his Authors@Wharton lecture series. (See the video below, or listen to Grant’s Re: Thinking podcast episode featuring Brown.) With her signature candor and straightforward style, Brown explored the main theme of the book, which is how vulnerability can help people determine their values, so they can build resilience and find joy in difficult work environments.
“For a long time, I thought about values as guiding principles, and I think that was incomplete. It’s not just what you care about, it’s what you sacrifice for,” Grant said, adding that his personal values are generosity, excellence, and integrity.
He asked Brown to name her values. Without hesitation, she replied, “faith and courage.” Faith because she believes that God requires her to see divinity in each person, and courage because that’s what it takes to live a meaningful life.
“Without vulnerability, there is no courage,” Brown said. “If there’s no risk, no uncertainty, and no exposure, you’re not being brave.”
As a sought-after consultant, Brown has worked with hundreds of executives. But her visits to the C-suite are different. She’s not interested in carefully crafted mission statements or empty promises. Brown demands honesty, and she wields her questions like a laser to cut through the corporate-speak.
“What’s on your heart and mind? If you sit up straight in bed at 4 o’clock in the morning, what are you worried about? That’s what I’m trying to resolve,” she said. “The questions I ask are really about getting to what your main concern is, not what I think it is or what the world portrays it as.”
Her book is aimed at helping readers find their own vulnerabilities so they can live and work with greater purpose and determination. For Brown, there’s no other way.
“I often talk about playing to win versus playing not to lose,” she said. “I’m not everybody’s cup of tea, if you can imagine, but I say what’s more important to you: To protect your ego or to win? Playing not to lose is always losing.”
“I have zero interest in looking, acting, or behaving like the people who built the tables I’m not supposed to be at.”— Brené Brown
Below are some additional highlights from her conversation with Grant.
Learn to ‘Operationalize Your Values’
Determining core values is hard work, but that’s not where it ends. Brown said values are worthless without action, and she urged people and organizations to “operationalize” them into behaviors. She also encouraged people to install “indicator lights” that help them realize when their actions are out of alignment with their values.
“I know I’m out of alignment with my courage value when I’m in resentment, because I’m probably not being brave enough to ask for what I need or want, or I’m not setting a boundary,” she said.
Manage Up With ‘the Playback’
Brown offered some simple advice for middle managers and employees who are struggling to communicate with their bosses, especially on work directives. She called it “the playback.” Ask the higher manager to articulate the goals, then repeat them back to make sure they are fully understood.
Once there is consensus, the employee can offer an assurance along with an ask: “I have a way to win with my team that makes me the most effective leader and drives the most performance. I’m clear on what you want. I’ve played it back for you. I need permission to lead my team,” Brown said, as an example.
Worst Career Advice
Brown thinks the worst career advice she ever received was to have “executive presence.” She prefers what she calls “pocket presence,” which happens to be the title of another chapter in the book.
“There are a lot of people in navy suits with red ties that command attention and are saying jack shit. And there are a lot of really quiet people who don’t look like a lot of the people in navy suits with red ties whose brilliance we all need.”
She recalled being the only woman at the table in the early days of her career. “I have zero interest in looking, acting, or behaving like the people who built the tables I’m not supposed to be at.”
Finding Your Own ‘Strong Ground’
The key to living a value-based life is self-awareness, Brown said. “Knowing who you are, combined with real ownership of your thinking, your attention, and your focus, is the way forward.”
That self-awareness is particularly important in these politically and economically turbulent times, she said. Standing on strong ground is a hedge against negative forces.
“There’s an increasingly eerie feeling that I have that there are two groups of people that are being created in the world right now, which are people who are thinking, really paying attention to their attention, and being mindful about their focus and self-awareness. Those people are running the world and looking at the rest of us and saying, ‘Don’t worry your pretty little head about it and just keep scrolling.’”
